Psychiatrist and author Dr. Drew Ramsey joins host Erin Connors to explore practical ways to protect mental fitness during the holidays, from setting boundaries at the table to rethinking alcohol. They dig into nutrient-dense eating, hydration, and simple swaps that lift mood, plus why dark chocolate can fit a healthy plan. Dr. Ramsey shares strategies for easing loneliness, taking a digital detox, and prioritizing sleep, including a plain-English tour of the brain’s glymphatic cleanup system. Listeners leave with doable steps to feel more present, connected, and resilient through the season.

Transcript

Erin Connors (00:10) Welcome to this edition of Mental Health Pathfinders. I'm your host, Erin Connors. Today, we're going to dig into the topic of nutrition and mental health with Dr. Drew Ramsey, whose work focuses on evidence-based integrative psychiatry, nutritional psychiatry, and male mental health. He founded the Brain Food Clinic, a digital mental health practice, and Spruce Mental Health in Jackson, Wyoming. He is also the author of a number of books, including his latest, Healing the Modern Brain, Nine Tenants to Build Mental Fitness and Revitalize Your Mind. Drew, thank you for joining us today.

Drew (00:44) Aaron, it's so great to be with you and to all of our colleagues listening. What a treat to get to spend a little time with you all.

Erin Connors (00:50) I'm so glad to have you here. And you know what? We're coming up on this really busy holiday season, a time when so many people are just, you know, they're so busy, maybe a little too busy in some cases. So mental fitness is really important. Talk about that and how we can practice that during the holiday season.

Drew (01:10) Mental fitness is really important during the holiday season. And I think a great time when we see like, so how are we doing? It's kind of a test where we're getting to see, you know, are the parts that we're working on in ourselves, our self-awareness, our connections, our ability to kind of be engaged and be present, you know, can we bring that to the holidays? And it's sort of, I think about it a bit like the final, final match of the year of really, have I done a good job taking care of myself? There are a lot of demands where we see this merger of a lot of obviously family dynamics, a lot of the holidays bringing up, you I think often what I hear on my couch is loss particularly is a surprising feeling. Everyone's celebrating and having gratitude and you're really missing someone. know, holidays didn't feel like it did last year. And so I find that mix of emotions is one of the things I always find very hard. I'm trying to have gratitude and celebrate and I'm also having a lot of big feelings. on the other end of the spectrum. And so it does test our mental fitness. And it's also when that daily routine slips, we all start to eat a little bit more. People start to drink a little bit more. Um, we want to be a little more indulgent. We've had a hard year. want to celebrate. And so all those things contribute. It's why it's one of the reasons why I hope mental fitness in the framework of it, right? We're not just talking about, okay, let's not get winter depression, but we're talking about like, wow, how do we think about last year and how the holidays went and how do we have it be even better this year? terms of how we feel.

Erin Connors (02:39) Yeah, in our APA Healthy Minds poll, it really supports what you're saying there. A lot of people have said the same thing, that the holidays are, they can be a joyous time, but they can also be stressful. You talked about family dynamics too, coming to the table and having discussions that maybe you don't want to all the time, and that probably stresses a lot of people out.

Drew (02:58) Yeah, it's probably an important note right here this year to think what you do and don't want as part of your holiday spirit and holiday time. I'm kind of like a junkyard dog. I'm really protective of my dinner table and of the closeness of my family. And there's certain things that I really am not going to let interrupt or kind of interfere with the functioning as best as I can, the functioning of my nuclear family. And so those conversations, let's say about politics, about current events, about controversial topics, I'm really clear and I would hope everybody else is that that's not why we're here. We're here as friends, as family, as community to come together, to look past our differences, to embrace one another. Like that's what the holidays are for. And so, like I said, I get to be a little bit of a junkyard dog these days as an older guy where I'm kind of eyeing patriarch training camp to be like a real true patriarch. joining the matriarchs out there and create a wonderful holiday time. And so, yeah, I think family dynamics, are things to talk about and things not to, and there are things that I just think don't belong at the holiday table.

Erin Connors (04:05) No, that's a really good point. you you talked a little bit about food and drinks. Sometimes we tend to overindulge a little bit during the holidays. Can that play a really big role in your mood during the holidays as well?

Drew (04:17) Yes, yes, we should bring up the graph that I've been putting in my slide deck about the correlation between inflammatory factors in your brain and the level of your hangover. There's a pretty perfect correlation that inflammatory factors go up around four hours after you start drinking. Then at 12 hours, you've really depleted the antioxidants in your brain. And things like C reactive protein levels are up by 70 80%. So what does that all mean? What does inflammation in the brain actually do? Well, it feels like a hangover, right? You're sad, you're anxious, you're not able to kind of put together that complex recipe as well, because your cognitive circuits are a little impaired, and that's the effect of inflammation on the brain. Other things that cause a lot of inflammation, know, when we're overeating, taking in too many calories, not sleeping enough, stressed out all the time. And so, you know, we like to joke and laugh about it, Aaron, and I think this is where that word we love in mental health boundaries comes up for me. What we talking about a minute ago was creating boundaries around your holiday experience to make sure that it's festive, that it's connecting, that it's joyous, that it's what the holidays are for. I think the same thing around food and drink. We should really have a celebration of the bounty of food we have available to us. I mean, it's just amazing whether you want, on any budget, whether you're celebrating with lentils and rice and sometimes for Christmas Eve, we'll just have pumpkin soup and really try and just have a simpler meal before a big feast. However you're doing it, it's such a time to really ⁓ start with that sense of gratitude and then go through those basic rules we now know in what's called nutritional psychiatry. We have a different set of recommendations in this talk about holiday eating than ever before. Because the AP has done such a great job asking the American public like, hey, the research is coming in, but what do you all think? the majority of people in America think, hey, diet and mood are really related. And so it's really exciting time with all of the research. I think all of the new research about alcohol is having people really reconsider what role alcohol plays in your life. was just talking to a CEO I work with talking about they just ran a big corporate retreat kind of pretty hard. It was the first one that had ever run without alcohol. And it's just like, so I'm seeing this kind of sea change is happening. I suspect more people listening than ever before going into the holidays. with several months of not drinking or drinking less under their belts. And so, on the food part, basic rules of nutritional psychiatry, I go over those in Eat to Beat Depression and Anxiety and also in the most recent book. And we think about food categories and some basic rules, like we want more nutrient density. So more seafood, greens, nuts and beans, more of these types of foods, right? More sweet potatoes, more real whole foods, right? And I think skipping off what I think is like, Am I allowed to say bastardization on this podcast? The bastardization. Which just means like when you take your sweet potatoes and you put marshmallows on them, like, you know, if that's your family's fun tradition, fine. But there's a way where we take some of these healthy whole foods and we kind of really taint them. don't celebrate them for the simple, amazing nutritious food they are. So nutrient density are these foods like greens, like nuts, like beans, like grass-fed steak and salmon that have a lot of nutrients that they're bringing.

Erin Connors (07:03) ⁓ wow! Go for it!

Drew (07:29) to the meal and that's what we're after, more nutrients per calorie.

Erin Connors (07:33) So that's what people should really try to prioritize during some of these ⁓ holiday meals.

Drew (07:39) Yeah, when I think about a holiday meal, the challenges for me are the snacking beforehand. And so again, I try and look at that because I love that all the little crackers, all the little cheeses. And again, I'm not going to take that away from our gather. I love that festive stuff. I love the big charcuterie board. And so people can say, what about this date or that date? It's like, hey, you know, it's an indulgent time. Enjoy it. But I kind of just to put it in a mental fitness framework, Aaron. I start with that self-awareness, just me very personally, like, what do I like? Where do I struggle? Where in the holidays do I like not feel good? I feel like I ate too much or, and I kind of identify those and try and make just a really simple, reasonable plan. You know, I'm going to be a little bit more disciplined or one for me is often I'm going to stay a little more clear on my hydration. A lot of times I get too excited to stop hydrating. So those are some of the ideas, think really enjoying the sides. One of the things about a glorious holiday feast is that there's lots of the different things and doing that with Whole Foods, whether it's like lots of sauteed greens and veggies. I think, you know, more and more people understand the importance of plants in our diet and the importance of understanding the healthy proteins in our diet. And again, there's such wonderful options, but starting that self-awareness, thinking about nutrient density and these food categories that we know are great for our mental health. And I think that sets you up for having a better holiday season.

Erin Connors (09:02) You talked a little bit about hydration. think sometimes we forget about that, especially when we're driving long distances or flying or you're with people for long periods of time. It's just so important.

Drew (09:14) Yep. It's, it's huge. think it's, it's one of the gifts for me. I started drinking about four years ago, alcohol. And I realized that I kind of like crosswired my circuits in my brain that when I get thirsty, I'd be like, you need a beer. And so it's really, hydration has really been near and dear to my heart where I sort of moved to Wyoming. We're up in the mountains, we're at altitude. it's interesting that at altitude, when I get a little dehydrated, I feel it more psychiatrically. I feel a little more anxious. I, I, know, sometimes it's just kind of almost shocking to me. I haven't had a big glass of water and I'll get ahold of one. so tolerating not having a good hydration status is something I think a lot of us are used to. Just being aware of that, you don't need the big Stanley cup everywhere. It's just being mindful that you want to be, especially if you're unsettled, it's probably one of those, if you're feeling unsettled in the holidays, what do you do? Right? The alarms start going off, the families start talking about politics. No one's following the boundaries. Everybody's drinking too much. And this is where I think really having a plan. For me, that's, I get a glass of water and I leave the situation. Sometimes go to the backyard. I'll be honest. Sometimes I go into the bathroom and just have like five minutes, take some breaths, maybe not five minutes, have my glass of water, but whatever it is for you, when you're listening, you know, having a moment where you can have a few minutes, a family member through a wonderful Thanksgiving recently on the Oregon coast a couple of years ago. And there were a lot of dynamics at play, but I remember there was this, couple of different moments during this long, wonderful celebration. I just like went out. had a few breaths, a glass of water, looked out at the ocean, really settled down. Really helped me be like, I don't know, like present in the way that I want to be for the holidays more than, you know, sometimes where, I don't know, it kind of builds up.

Erin Connors (10:56) And that sounds heavenly too, just taking that moment for yourself when you're so surrounded by so many people. And maybe you're not always used to that as well. Maybe you're not used to being in big groups all the time.

Drew (11:06) Ooh, that's a great point, especially, I hear this a lot from patients and from friends, right? We're like socializing, not quite as easy, maybe a little rusty, you know, that was being blamed on the pandemic. Now it's being blamed on this thing called social media and the Instagram. But whatever it is, it's kind of maybe taking you out. ⁓ I think there's also a way that our pleasure and interaction pleasure has become really, really simple. To interact with people, have a FaceTime. like send some fun comments back and forth or some DMs. You know, there's, it's really very low energy to sit on your couch. And so the idea of, you know, going through all the to do about a holiday, I think there's a way that more than ever, we can be kind of more clear about the stresses of that. So, you know, again, some time for yourself is very important. And then, you know, I think just being diligent about some of the challenges that are new and so with healing the modern brain was trying to get into this of like, Hey, you know, things changed in terms of our mental health. Our brains are mostly the same. There's more plastics in them. We're eating different foods. We're not sleeping as much. There's probably more inflammation. But a lot of what has happened, our brains are the same, but our environment has changed. And this digital environment, our understanding really shifts how we think, shifts how our cognitive circuits work, shifts how we think about connection. so I hope the holidays is a time for people to get a little digital detox. You know, um, something I always, you know, just doesn't have to be days and days, but almost everybody, all of us, right? If you're honest, you put down that phone after that initial feeling like, where's my phone? I miss my phone. Right. Right. There's that way that like a few hours go by and it's like, Oh, wow. I like, I remember the other day I read a magazine and I was like, wow, this is really great. And I was like walking or actually this is American and journalists psychiatry. had this great article come out or review of ketamine safety. And I was like carrying it around and I felt really

Erin Connors (12:42) Part of my hand.

Drew (13:02) So really cool. So another holiday tip, you all know this one, but I'm just going to say it out loud from a psychiatrist, spend time away from your screen. This holiday season, right? I like to calculate sometimes how many hours I've spent looking at the screen and how few I've spent gazing into my kids' eyes. And, know, I tried to use that to motivate a little more present.

Erin Connors (13:22) Yeah. And your phone's telling you that now too. They'll let you know how long you've been on there. And that often surprises me when I do look at that. yes.

Drew (13:29) Oh, I can't see if I'm pressing, can't look at it. It's a good thing, that idea, you know, we don't know our steps until your phone is telling you and then you have a little goal, right? You don't know how many minutes you're on Instagram or how many hours for some of us until you see it allows you to set a goal. That's too much.

Erin Connors (13:37) Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Well, let's get back to the food because I just love the food during the holidays. You know, the stuffings. I make my grandmother's stuffing recipe, which is not dietary pleasing in any way. You know, the mashed potatoes, the desserts. Are there any ways to tweak some of that stuff to make it just a little healthier? And maybe people wouldn't even know that you did it.

Drew (13:50) Mm-hmm. Yes, Aaron, I'd like to tweak you and everyone's listening idea about potatoes. Now you mashed, you just mentioned mashed potatoes, like somehow that's not an amazing superfood and it is the lonely potato, which we sometimes just think about as well. If it is a superfood, it's cause it saved Ireland. like, no, it's a superfood in its own right. A potato is the top source of potassium. Potassium is one of the minerals that we just don't get enough of. 97 % of Americans don't meet the recommended daily allowance of potassium. And most people we don't know to get it except a banana. So twice as much potassium in a potato as a banana. Another great source are white beans. And so those simple foods you notice like and even your grandma's stuffing like I'd want to just go like record scratch. Let's go back like what's not healthy about grandma's stuffing? know stuffing a lot of times can be like a sourdough bread with onions and nuts and A bunch of celery. I mean, those were, those are some of my favorite, healthiest foods. What's wrong with grandma's stuffing?

Erin Connors (15:06) A lot of it.

Drew (15:07) All right, so let's talk about butter and fat. So the concerns about butter really come from the idea around saturated fats and saturated fats being something that can raise LDL. There's a lot of, I would say, discussion and controversy about that in the social media space. I'm not sure that that much controversy for our colleagues in cardiology. There's pretty solid meta-analytic data showing a direct correlation between how much your level of LDL and your... risks of cardiac disease. Some butter, I think is fine. think sometimes we go a little bit too far. I'd also challenge you, some of the butter be swapped out for olive oil? And you swapped your butter for olive oil, all you did is raise your Mediterranean dietary pattern score. There was a trial of ⁓ young men with depression, the amend trial done in Australia, at ⁓ bad eating habits, gave them two nutritional counseling sessions. The main thing that changed, they ate some more plants, they ate about three tablespoons more olive oil a day. And they ate more plant based proteins like beans, legumes, hummus, white beans. ⁓ This increase in the Mediterranean dietary pattern score decreased their Beck depression inventory score by 20 points, which is huge, huge. If that were a medication, it would be our top selling antidepressant next year. So just to kind of emphasize the power of diet in our mental health. I also have this thing here and I call the food SIBO effect, which is when I'm snacking on pecans and I'm really just kind of doing my mental fitness thing, I'm eating healthy, I'm getting through the holidays feeling just better and better. I really try to take note of that. That's been intentional that I'm eating according to these values of nutritional psychiatry and nutrient density. And I have this food SIBO effect. You know, like I can feel the zinc and the omega-3 is coursing through my neurons. And even though maybe I can't, that notion that we have a disparaging notion of a placebo effect, but a placebo effect is about us believing in something. And our belief, our power belief, isn't that what the holiday season is all about? And so I think you should give yourself the gift this holiday season of believing more in yourself and believing more in your ability to have a delicious, decadent, amazing, we're going to get to dark chocolate, Aaron, don't worry.

Erin Connors (17:26) Ugh!

Drew (17:26) wonderful culinary experience filled with all the nutrients you need. You can sort through the family dynamics and you can emerge and kind of cap off this very tumultuous year with a wonderful holiday. I I think that's what psychiatry is about these days is in some ways pointing out, hey, there's like a challenge right now. And we know that you can do it if you use a lot of the skills that we've understood and researched over the years that are just great for our mental health.

Erin Connors (17:51) Well, please, get to the dark chocolate. Feel free.

Drew (17:54) Okay, so dark chocolate, everybody wants to know. So first, let's just get to the thing that everybody worries about. There were some headlines and research about dark chocolate being contaminated with heavy metals like lead and cadmium. And I guess we would just take a step back of one, I think it's fascinating that we live in an era and have a food system that detects that. That someone, we didn't pay them, we don't know who they are, is testing our dark chocolate and saying, hey, something is going on with the production here. And so that's really now then scrutinized, right? If you're a chocolate maker, you've got to be looking at this, understanding it, getting rid of it. And so for people who are very concerned about that, you certainly can find buying guides. You can certainly find brands that are really being very clear about heavy metal content in their chocolate. Second, let's think what is chocolate? So seafood greens, nuts and beans, that's my little rhyme. So we're talking about a bean, the cacao bean. The best way to eat dark chocolate, and I think one of the best culinary experiences out there, is a whole cacao bean with the husk on. Oh boy, that is like an amazing chocolate. A little bit bitter, but you get a sense of the essence of cacao. Cacao's taken, it's fermented, it's dried, it's added with some sugar. And so you have a fermented food, which is always interesting. You have a food that has a lot of fiber in it. It's a nut, lots of magnesium and a lot of iron. And so when I'm thinking about dark chocolate, and again, a dark chocolate, let's say 70 plus percent of cacao. thinking about mainly a plant based food, a ground up nut that's been fermented. And lots of interesting what we call polyphenols or flavonoids. These are molecules, plant molecules. Optimes plant use them to protect themselves. We've co-evolved with these. And so all kinds of fascinating things happen when you eat dark chocolate, you get more blood flow to your brain. There have been studies of healthcare providers and medical students eating more dark chocolate and helping with stress. And so I like this. also challenges the notion that Like, why do we have guilt around eating chocolate? Like, but you know, it's the theobroma is food of the gods. That's the classification of cacao. You know, Carl Linnaeus was hinting to us. And if you are in a lifestyle where you're guilty about your chocolate, I'd say it's cause you're, you're not eating chocolate. Right. Chocolate should be enjoyed. I think it can be very healthy for you. Uh, there's a great recipe in Eat Complete, my cookbook for a sourdough buckwheat cacao pancake.

Erin Connors (19:55) Yes. Mm-hmm. Wow.

Drew (20:16) that has so much nutrient density. They're so delicious. So there are lots of ways to use chocolate and especially dark chocolate, I think to promote our health. And again, for your holiday, how do we do that? All right. How about some dried fruit dipped in dark chocolate? What a fun thing to do with your kids. How about more baked apples and fruits and, and, ⁓ you know, ⁓ interesting ways of using whole natural foods to make dessert and drizzling some dark chocolate on there. ⁓ what about just, you know, simple uses of dark chocolate as little snacks after meals, little treats, right? There's all kinds of ways you can give dark chocolate as a gift. We have a lot of kind of holiday advice from the Brain Food Clinic and some of it is, you know, around spending time making stuff like dark chocolate dipped pieces of dried fruit or we have these great kind of brain food, brain power. little truffles that are filled with pumpkin seeds and dark chocolate. So just a mega dose of zinc and magnesium and delicious dark chocolate. And so all kinds of ways that you can incorporate dark chocolate into your holidays, in my opinion, that helps your mental health.

Erin Connors (21:20) Fantastic. I love the sound of all of that. Let's move on to loneliness a bit. This is a time of year when we talked about that just slightly a little bit earlier. How can people feel more connected? What are some strategies they can use to feel a little less lonely and a little more connected?

Drew (21:39) Yeah, I've learned a lot about loneliness from my patients over the years. People who, for example, don't have extended families or families at all, what they do during the holidays, how it feels. And I think that one of the things that I've been taught by them is really to sit and meditate on this difference between loneliness and being alone. And I think a lot of times loneliness for us is that, you know, especially these days, we're not really used to having a lot of time to ourselves or time we're really alone. and focused on our own agenda. And a lot of times when we're alone, we're very preoccupied worrying about other people, what we should be doing, what's on our list, how people think about us. And so I would say for one, during the holidays, it is a time for you. It's a time for you to think about yourself in service, right? That notion of thinking about the people in your lives, thinking about those connections, whether it's a holiday card and just who you're getting that holiday card out to, who's on your list, right? Or whether it's the people you give gifts to or cook for. ⁓ In terms of people who are just outright lonely and don't have connections, I do think it's a nice time to think about that or wonder where you can explore that. Maybe that's going to a place that's serving holiday food to folks who are struggling with food security. ⁓ Maybe that's just leaving the country and going on a trip and just avoiding the whole holiday thing together. Go to someplace that doesn't celebrate these holidays in the same way. I've had patients do that before. ⁓ I think if the loneliness is also around the state of things in your family, I think it's a good time to be reflecting on that with more hopefulness for the new year. think it's a time to be noting that maybe it's hopefulness that you can let go and have boundaries and understand your family isn't the way that you want them to be or that you hope they'll be. Sometimes it's about picking out folks. I just had a great conversation with someone where There's a sibling that's just really come alive and the relationships really come alive. And you see that it's like light up. And I think their holiday season is probably going to be influenced by that dynamic. That's just kind of bubbled to the surface. And, and I think they'll be focused on that a little bit more. And so I think, you know, loneliness is certainly something that, um, all of us can get into. Um, I've noticed this in myself, certainly, especially times when we're a little down or struggling with depression of, boy, you couldn't have a better. group of colleagues and connections and friends and all that stuff. you know, I can find myself feeling very disconnected and alone. so, you know, sometimes I think that happens to us. And for me, it's really bad in the middle of the night, like of insomnia. And again, having that awareness, trying to understand what I can about that, where it's coming from, if I need to do something about it. I think those are the ways that I think about loneliness and then enjoying yourself. You know, there is something about being with yourself. I find pets help me be alone. Maybe that doesn't count as like alone asterisks, it's a little bit of a cheap. I find that like I'm out on a walk in the woods and there's something about the enjoyment of another creature. don't know, it just kind of captivates me a bit more, but you know, if you're feeling alone and lonely, I would encourage you to kind of work on that and take it places. Like take it to the forest, take it to the mountain top, take it to the ocean.

Erin Connors (24:41) Mm-hmm.

Drew (24:52) You know, see, take it to your journal. boy. That's sorry, Aaron. That's the place. Like if you're feeling lonely in the holidays, I just want to like, I'd love, if I could wish this for you to stop time, open up the beautiful moleskin journal. Like, you know, nice eight by 10 is what I like. Your favorite pen, a nice cup of coffee if you drink it or tea, you know, and like half an hour to fill a few pages about your loneliness. Like what's it feel like to you? Does it sit in your body somewhere? When's it coming up the worst? What are you most worried about with the holidays about it? And just try and pour it all out there. And just like a good therapy session, something comes out usually of these pages. Something gets framed up or a word or a phrase or an idea that just like a good therapy session, it's like a little, I don't know, thread you get to pull on and all of a sudden, I don't know, it's a little easier for us. Some things are a little bit more understood.

Erin Connors (25:49) Yeah, very cathartic, very cathartic. You know, you touched on it a little bit here too, the importance of sleep. I think we underestimate it, you know, especially during the busy holiday season, how we really need to get that good restful sleep.

Drew (26:03) Yeah, people don't know about the glymphatic system. In 2014, our colleagues discovered this amazing way that the brain gets rid of waste. It's kind of obvious because everything that burns a lot of energy creates a lot of waste. Your car has exhaust, your house has exhaust. We do too. We take in a lot of calories and we burn that. So what do we do with the waste? Especially in our most energy intensive organ, our brain. So the glymphatic drains the waste out of our brain. We get rid of all those like... You know, bad, all those bad proteins that make Alzheimer's disease and all that stuff, the towels and all those things, they get out of our brain and it happens during sleep. The brain physiology changes and like, I think about it as more of like the black gunk. They say it's like about seven grams. I was like a teaspoon and just, and so when we're not sleeping those four sleep cycles, then we're not sleep cycling properly. Our brain can't settle down. It's kind of like that journaling I was asking you all to do, right? Where I want you to kind of like settle down and let it out. It's like your brain kind of needs to do the same thing at night. So we don't protect sleep. And I think we give bad advice. I did this my whole career. Hey, how's your sleep? doc, try six to eight hours. great. Keep trying. That's horrible. It's not detailed and healing the modern brain. I really try to get into the details of what real sleep and mental fitness sleep hygiene looks like. It means I want you to look at your bedroom right now. And if it's not tidy, clean, free of clutter, free of artificial fibers, not an air filter in there, if there aren't blackout curtains, if it's not like a sanctuary to like brain cleanse, that's great news. I've got some fun presents for you on your gift guide this holiday. I'm thinking, right, but identifying your sleep demons. Like what is causing the problem with your sleep? Sleep is one of my favorite things to work out with patients. How do you get help? Maybe get help with some meds. I've certainly gotten some help over the years with the little... Winter insomnia, anxiety insomnia, right? Figuring out again, what works for you. but sleep, yeah, there's probably, you know, in terms of the simple things, like it really is, uh, one of the things I've been interested in about sleep, it's the absence of doing things. like all I really need you to do is stop. your teeth, wash your face, say a prayer, write some gratitude and just stop, put your head on the pillow, deep breaths, close your eyes and just really try and drift off. And so again, big issues, people don't value bedtime. Nobody is trying to go to bed at 9.30. That's a big mistake. Get into bed early. If you wake up in the middle of the night, don't extend that. Go, if you have to go to the restroom, go to the restroom, get back in. Lots and lots of good information out there about sleep. But the big alarm that we're sounding is brain problems increasingly look like part of them stem from people struggling with brain inflammation. That's not a sensationalized idea. That's very clear in the science. a great article that started this out more than a decade ago with Robert McIntyre called, Inflammation and its discontents, which just sort of sums it up. And so how do we fight that? So part of what we're talking about here has been the foods that are correlated with having lower inflammation that hugely decreases our risk of depression. Very clear data from the Nurses Health Study on Inflammatory Dietary Patterns and Depression. How we get our sleep more dialed in. Not just saying, I try, but really looking like, What is your sleep hygiene plan? I'm in a sauna almost every night, 30 to 40 minutes before I go to bed. I crave it. And I go out and I sleep right through the night. I'm like a little hot potato down there. so again, that's kind of been my commitment as I'm aging, right? As I'm feeling like, wow, my brain is older. can just tell. I really want to double down again with getting rid of all of the gunk up there, getting rid of the microplastics out there. getting really up there and getting really great sleep. So it's a wonderful thing for us to emphasize. Another reason that the alcohol has got to really be examined in your life. You know, just one of the things that puts a lot more waste up there, makes it harder for you to fight free radicals and just ruins your sleep cycling so you don't get rid of it.

Erin Connors (30:14) All right, well, that's a great place for us to end today, Dr. Drew Ramsey. Some important tips for folks during the holiday season. Just really important information to get out there so we can all enjoy.

Drew (30:26) Thank you so much, Aaron. Everybody have a great holiday season and thanks to you and to the APA for spreading all of our knowledge in psychiatry out there to everybody. I hope this helps you. If you're listening out there, just have a good, wonderful, joyous, celebratory holiday. You deserve it. Your mental fitness deserves it. It's just a treat to get to share with you for a few minutes. Thank you, Aaron.

Erin Connors (30:46) You're welcome. Thanks for being here. And thank you, our listeners, to joining us today. You can find Mental Health Pathfinders on your favorite podcast platform.