In this episode of Mental Health Pathfinders, host Erin Connors speaks with award-winning journalist Lisa Ling and psychiatrist Dr. Gregory Scott Brown about the mental health challenges facing students as they head back to school. The discussion explores how social media, AI-generated content, climate anxiety, and misinformation are shaping youth mental health, while also highlighting the critical roles of parents, teachers, and schools in providing support. Together, they unpack how families can notice the first signs of trouble, keep communication doors open, and make sure kids get the help they need without delay.

Transcript

Erin Connors (00:10)

Thank you for joining us for this edition of Mental Health Pathfinders. I'm your host, Erin Connors. Well, it's that time of year when students are heading back to the classroom. For many, it's a very exciting time to start the new year and see old friends. But for others, it can be a time of great pressure and anxiety. We have two guests today. Our first is award-winning journalist, Lisa Ling. She's here to join us for this discussion. Thanks for being here today, Lisa.

Lisa Ling (00:34)

Thank you so much for having me.

Erin Connors (00:36)

Also joining us today, Dr. Gregory Scott Brown, Clinical Associate Professor at the University of Houston College of Medicine. And he is also Chair of the APA's Council on Communications. Greg, great to have you here.

Greg Brown (00:49)

Good to be with you.

Erin Connors (00:50)

Well, it's hard to believe summer is almost over already. And here we go, going into a new school year. Lisa, let's start with you. As a journalist, you've covered a wide range of human experiences, but you really do focus in on youth mental health. Why is that an important topic for you?

Lisa Ling (01:06)

Well, I think one of the main reasons is I have young kids myself. I have a 12 year old who's about to start a new school and a nine year old at home. And so I am seeing firsthand in my own home, some of the challenges that this generation of kids are dealing with and the unique kinds of pressures that they are shouldering. As a journalist, I have also reported quite extensively on the mental health crisis among young people, which includes

addiction or dependence on ⁓ devices. And I've been trying to speak out about this for a while now, because even though there wasn't data until very recently, anyone who has kids at home can see the kind of impact that excessive screen use and social media use is having on our kids' self-esteem.

⁓ on their attention span among so many other issues. So those are some of the reasons why this issue has become so important to me.

Erin Connors (02:15)

And Greg, I know this is an issue you deal with as well. What are some of the things you're seeing as well as kids get ready to get back to the classroom?

Greg Brown (02:25)

So I was just thinking the other day, Aaron, how, you know, things are so different these days than they were when I was in high school. And that wasn't that long ago. ⁓ I can remember Columbine, ⁓ the incident that happened in the late ⁓ nineties. I was 15 or 16 years old then. And just to think that these days kids are experiencing these active shooter drills that I never had to go through, ⁓ when I was in high school and as Lisa mentioned, social media.

addiction. You know, I think I graduated from high school by the time I got my first smartphone, climate anxiety, which is something that, you know, the APA has addressed recently. And the studies have shown that parents and young people, people with longer perceived futures are just going to be around longer or more concerned about the fires and the floods and the natural disasters. So just to think that there there's an entirely different

set of mental health challenges these days and there were just you know fifteen or twenty years ago and it's quite remarkable.

Erin Connors (03:29)

know, Greg from the city.

Lisa Ling (03:30)

Well, and just to add

to what Dr. Brown is saying, look, there have always been crises happening in the world, but now again, with devices in kids' hands and access to unfiltered social media, it makes things, it magnifies all of these things so exponentially. And these are very, very heavy loads for a young person to be carrying on their shoulders.

Erin Connors (03:58)

You know, you're right too, and a lot of kids are turning to social media to get their information. You know, we've learned that this generation isn't afraid sometimes to talk about mental health. So they're out there talking about it, but are they getting the correct information when they're trying to get that information? Greg.

Greg Brown (04:16)

That's such an important point. And I'll tell you this, with the destigmatization of mental health and mental illness, that's sort of a double-edged sword because you see more people on social media talking about their experiences, and you also see an opportunity for the spread of more misinformation and disinformation about mental health. Now, one of my frustrations as a psychiatrist

I can remember a few years ago, I was in a hotel and I saw a social media post by a famous person, and I won't mention his name, but he was spreading some falsities about the medication Wellbutrin. And I was in my hotel, having breakfast, and I was screaming at the television set. And I wish that I could post and reach millions of people with a post or speak to tens of millions of people and say, this is not true. ⁓

Erin Connors (05:00)

But, you know.

Greg Brown (05:11)

but I'm not afforded that luxury. So we have to be really careful where we're getting our information. think parents play a huge role in that and making sure that, you know, their children are, if they are on social media, that they're monitoring their social media use and making sure they're turning to evidence-based sources.

Lisa Ling (05:29)

I just wanted to add to what Dr. Brown was also saying, because in addition to seeing this ⁓ disinformation and misinformation that has become so pervasive, ⁓ we add to this the evolution of AI. I have a little girl who's not old, who's obsessed with basketball. And she saw a video recently of her idol, Steph Curry, using really disparaging language.

to talk about his teammates. And my daughter came into my room and she was just devastated by what she saw. She couldn't believe that her idol was speaking so negatively about her teammates. And I sat her down. said, honey, that's not Steph Curry saying that. That is an AI generated image of him, but that's not him. as dire as what I'm saying is,

and sounds, the positive in all of this was it gave us an opportunity to really talk about what was happening. And my other daughter, she got herself in a little bit of trouble online as well earlier this summer. And again, you know, I wish we didn't have to kind of learn the hard way, but it did also give us a chance to have really open discussions. But parents cannot wait.

to have, or they should not wait to have these kinds of discussions. You don't want social media or things that your kids are seeing online to be teaching them. You don't want them to see things that are confusing or hurtful or scary before you can explain what they're seeing or what they are being exposed to. And so there's an incredible opportunity for parents to engage your kids and to really kind of teach them

about the literacy component, about how to be digitally literate online. So when they do see things that are ⁓ disturbing, they may just take a pause and come talk to you about it or realize that it may or may not be true.

Greg Brown (07:41)

That's that. just want to, I want to this, that this is just so important. mean, just think, think about it. I, know, I am a board certified psychiatrist in my forties and sometimes I will get on Instagram and I will see things that are created by AI and it fools me too. And I have to go to my wife or my family and I have to, you know, is this real? And you know, so you can only imagine what it's like for a child.

Erin Connors (07:59)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Greg Brown (08:08)

⁓ And that's why these conversations are so critically important.

Erin Connors (08:13)

know, Greg, you know, from a psychiatric perspective, let's go back to that on treating children, because a lot of these kids have these anxieties and these worries. You know, what should parents be looking out for at this time? And what are you looking out for as kids are heading back to school?

Greg Brown (08:29)

So it's tricky because, a lot of times when parents are noticing these early signs of generalized anxiety disorder or major depression, you know, especially with their teens, they'll brush it off as normal teenage behavior, right? So when they're noticing things like irritability or, know, their teenager wants to spend more time, ⁓ you know, in their room and isolate a little bit more. Now, these can also be signs of mental illness. So it's important

to know the difference. think any time that you're concerned, right, it's important to, you know, as Lisa said, to sit down and have a conversation with curiosity before judgment, ask questions, ask your kids about how they're doing, ask them about, you know, their experiences. Any time a kid is, regardless, or an adult is talking about death or suicide or not wanting to be here,

Whether that's something that they're communicating in words or in pictures that they're drawing that are disturbing. You know, those are indications that maybe something else might be going on. And the other important thing to keep in mind is if you notice a precipitous decline in their grades, right? So you have a straight A student or an all B students all of a sudden failing their classes, right? So, you know, it's not always going to be, you

readily apparent or totally obvious, but you know, there are these small indicators and if there's any degree of concern, I think it makes sense to at least start with a conversation.

Erin Connors (10:07)

Is there anything, this is for either one of you, is there anything schools should be doing maybe to jump in and help out here?

Lisa Ling (10:14)

Well, I'm on the board of an organization called the Kids Mental Health Foundation. ⁓ And they are supplying ⁓ parents and schools with incredible resources that they can use. Look, teachers are also carrying so much on their shoulders. But I do think that ⁓ there are opportunities to educate teachers about things to look for. I I know that at our little elementary school,

⁓ There have been many discussions about ⁓ protocol. And I'd like to think that it won't require that much time of teachers to be educated in what to look for ⁓ if students are exhibiting some signs. But my hat goes off to teachers because ⁓ as a parent who's had my kids home all summer, I am so excited for them.

and go back to school so that they can have ⁓ a regimented schedule. And the biggest fight that we are having in our home, when they're home so much, around devices. So I think that structure of school is so important, but I just want to give props to the teachers out there because ⁓ they've not only been tasked with educating our kids, but...

You know, now we're asking that they are prepared to kind of look for signs. And so I just want to just give them props and know that we are deeply, deeply appreciative of everything that they are doing to help our kids.

Greg Brown (11:51)

I want to echo that too. just got back from a vacation, a couple's trip with one of my best friends who is the best man in my wedding. He's a long time educator and he's like a brother to me. So we always get into these heated discussions and on our way to the airport, I was giving him my whole mental health spiel and he was saying, but you don't understand, Greg, it's hard for teachers. It's really hard. It's hard. And so again,

I can only imagine what that's like and the challenges that educators ⁓ face. Now, what I will say ⁓ as a psychiatrist, know, oftentimes kids, the first person they're going to be interacting with when it comes to displaying, you know, a mental health problem, whether it's signs of an attention or depression, ⁓ oftentimes is going to be their teacher, right? At school, they're spending a lot of time with their teachers. And I can only see so many

Erin Connors (12:45)

Mm-hmm.

Greg Brown (12:51)

patients, right? And it's that's why it's really important that teachers and you know, school districts value mental health and I think many of them do. But that teachers are being trained to pick up on these early signs, you know, just as psychiatrists and just as parents are.

Erin Connors (13:08)

You know, the APA foundation.

Lisa Ling (13:09)

And we

really need to listen to our teachers as well. Parents and administrators really, really need to listen to our teachers.

Erin Connors (13:12)

Yes.

And the APA Foundation has a great program. It's free for all schools. It's called Notice Talk Act at School. And it's a program that teaches not only teachers, but...

actually anyone that works with children at all, the coaches, the janitors, the bus drivers, to notice the signs of an issue, to learn how to talk about it and then act on it so the child can get some help. So that's at the APA Foundation. on their website. There's a lot of information there. So just go there to find out about it because it's completely free for schools. So Lisa, I want to come back to you again. ⁓ How has the national conversation around youth mental health evolved in recent years and what's still missing? What do we need to do?

Lisa Ling (13:59)

I mean, I think it's evolved tremendously. I mean, I am constantly having conversations, again, with people from the Kids Mental Health Foundation, the fact that this even exists, that there are resources available. ⁓ One of my dearest friends is the mental health director at a school that's attached to UCLA called the Geffen School. And they actually have a mental health class where the entire student body, every student at that school once a week has to attend Mr. Szabo's class.

And it's incredible, Erin, to hear these kids be able to describe their feelings. They have the language to talk about what they're going through and what they're feeling. And we have to realize that mental health is as important, if not more important, than physical health. And I say that because if we're feeling off or we can't focus or we're having a...

you know, a mental health issue, that's going to impact everything in our lives. We will become incapable of studying or follow instruction or working out. And so it's really, really crucial. again, I know how much pressure ⁓ schools are under and how deeply funding cuts have impacted schools, but it is something that we really should consider to ⁓ add that as part of the curriculum.

Perhaps once a week, if kids are taking PE every day, maybe one day of the week can be devoted to mental health studies. And Mr. Szabo at the Geffen School has designed an incredible program for teachers if anyone out there is interested in knowing more about it.

Erin Connors (15:48)

That's fantastic. Really good. Greg, what should parents know about seeking professional help for their child and what misconceptions still persist in that area?

Greg Brown (15:59)

Well, I mean, I think just in general, when it comes to seeking help, people ⁓ sort of think that if you if you go to a psychiatrist, that must mean that you're some you're quote unquote crazy ⁓ or you're sick or you're ill, you're going to have to go to that psychiatrist ⁓ forever or be on medications forever. And honestly, Aaron, I think that psychiatrists can can do a much better job of sort of explaining to our patients.

⁓ an on-off plan that is successful. And in many cases, I think most of my patients, again, depending on the condition, they'll take a medication for a period of time and then they're able to wean off of that medication. And I know I've done my job when a patient is able to say, thank you, I don't need to see you anymore. Right. And so I think that, you know, if more people understand the psychiatric process and that we're all about ⁓ healing.

right? We're all about helping our patients, regardless of their age, you know, get better and move on with their lives. I think perhaps that would encourage more people to seek treatment.

Erin Connors (17:06)

Yeah, the stigma is still out there. I mean, even for the young people, you talked a little bit about that, that some people feel maybe it's almost a weakness to come forward and talk about this stuff.

Greg Brown (17:18)

I mean, on the other side, I just want to add this to because I think this this part is important. I also see, especially among young people, sort of like the glorification of mental illness. It's like their friend has bipolar disorder, their friend has borderline personality disorder, and they they want to have borderline personality disorder too. Right. And so, ⁓ you know, and again, I think that it's not or shouldn't be a parent's responsibility to diagnose their child.

Right. But if a child is saying something like that, you know, communicating that with a psychiatrist and, know, not being afraid to say, ⁓ you know, I'm worried that my kid actually does have bipolar disorder, so I'm not going to take them to a psychiatrist. You know, oftentimes it's a one or two time, you know, appointment visit. Right. And so we're the one that can be making those, those distinguishing factors in that, that determination.

Erin Connors (18:15)

Excellent. Well, Lisa Ling, Dr. Gregory Scott Brown, thank you both for being here for this really important conversation today. Appreciate you.

And you, the listener, thank you for joining us for this edition of Mental Health Pathfinders. Please like and follow us on your favorite podcast platform.